New guy questions

[acorneau]

Howdy folks,

As you may have caught from my other posts I'm relatively new around here. My girlfriend and I have started to go the the Wichita's once or twice a year now, and while we really love the climbing there, I'm still trying to understand the ethics/history/thinking of how things work there.

(These questions are kind of random, so bare with me!)

1. One part of this website states that there is a moratorium on climbing the north and east side of Cache Creek in the Narrows, including Sunshine wall. Is that still the case?

2. Got on Ker Plunk last weekend, fun climb! Is there any concern that the use of the first pitch belay tree will some day kill the tree? I used a couple of cams to the left of the tree to keep any wear and tear on the tree to a minimum. In my home trad area, Erock, trees are off limits to protect them. Is there any similar concern at the Refuge?

3. Top anchors: this one really alludes me as it seems very inconsistent! There seems to be large sections of walls where there are no top anchors at all, but then there are two sets of chains not even 5 feet apart at Crazy Alice. Wouldn't it make more sense to put in a few more rap stations, like one set over on Zoo Left and one set on Zoo right to spread out any congestion at the Crazy Alice anchors?

3b. Lower Mt. Scott: there are 3 bolts at the top of High Anxiety, one bolt has a few rusted chain links and a lap link, but it's not really a rap station. Any chance of putting some chains/quicklinks on there so folks could rap and not leave stuff up there? Just a thought.
 
4. There are some old Leeper hangers on the face to the right of High Anxiety. Looks stout! Didn't see anything in the OK Select or or the older OK Climber's Guide. What's the scoop?

5. Why wasn't Birthday Boy listed in OK Select? I thought it was an excellent climb.


Ok, I think that's all for the moment.

I look forward to hearing from you folks and learning more about the OK climbing scene!

[mydogscout]

Welcome to the Oklahoma scene!  Man, it is great to hear someone coming in and wanting to be a good steward of the wichitas, thanks man for being proactive!

I'll answer your questions as best I can, as it seems i'm the first one to get to them, but anyone feel free to correct any errors I have...

1.  I believe that moratorium was in place to research whether climbing was having a significant impact and we are through with that currently (and there was no significant impact found I should add), so go getcha some sunshine!

2.  The tree is there, yes, but it does make more sense as you stated to cram a few cams behind that big flake and protect it that way so as to protect the tree.  it's a more comfortable belay anyway IMHO.  There's no "rule" against using trees as protection, but obviously, we should tread lightly and go with the least impact option.

3. Can't help you on this one.  You're right, it'd be convenient to have a few more places with top anchors but no such luck.  Along zoo wall there are several places for natural anchors, but that is it for rap anchors on zw.  there is a walk down if you hike past zoo wall left though. 

3b.  I've noticed this too.  The general answer to your question is that any new bolts, or bolts that are in need of replacement need to be approved by the Advisory Bolting Committee.  If you're interested in improving that station, contact them here on this site by clicking on "ABC" on the home page, then click "applications."  Applications to replace bolts are expedited.

4.The climb you're talking about is called Final Exit, something like 11c, but yeah, all the holds are facing the wrong way!  anyone know who equipped that line and got the FA?  Dates?  was it Forney?

5. That is a fun one, agreed!  Tony kept it "select" indeed but it is nice to have a nice lightweight guide to get you around the most popular routes. There are tons of crappy to great climbs not documented in the select guide for sure.

[spacemonkey]

Hey Acorneau, welcome to the wichitas.  I can answer a few more of your questions

As for the tree on kerplunk your right..plug some gear instead of using the tree.  Its not a good idea to use that tree as an anchor anyways.
 
as for your number 3   fixed anchors on top of the walls.  The reason there are no other fixed anchors along the top of zoo wall is because there are existing natural anchors all along there for all those routes.  You should not need any bolts for a good anchor along any other parts of zoo wall.  Once you top out, build your natural anchor to belay up your second, then simply walk to the rap station to get down.  All the walls in the narrows have a set of fixed anchors at the top for getting back down.  Two exist at the top of crazy alice because there are no good natural anchors up there for crazy alice and dr coolhead.  That area tends to be a busy area so a second set was installed so that people could toprope crazy alice and Dr coolhead/mcbrides mind at the same time.  Or rap down while someone was climbing.  Its the busiest site in the narrows.

The wichtas is a very different type of climbing area than other areas.  For one it is the only wildlife refuge in the nation that currently allows climbing.  It has a wilderness setting unlike many other areas in the central plains. The climbing community up here strives to keep the climbing a wilderness experience.  There are no convenience anchors set when natural anchors exist. The only reason rap stations were set was to minimize the impact on erosion in the decent gullies.

as for the hangers you saw..those are actually not leeper hangers but homeade hangers from steel angle iron..and they are actually quite bomber.  The FA was by a guy out of dallas i believe...cant remember his name.

As for those three bolts..They are bomber bolts last time i checked and should not need replacing.  You should still be able to thread the rap links and pull the rope from the bottom.  I dont recall having any issue with this in the past.  Another alternative is to just place a few slings on the anchor to rap from, then when your done climbing, just grab them on the way up...you have to go out past them anyways when you head back to the truck.  Again, here, convenience plays a minimum role where impact takes precedent.  chains would make the anchors more conspicuous and  would be easily noticed by non climbers hiking around that particular cliff.  Not sure why the 3rd hangerless bolt is there, but you can use a nut between the washers for a 3rd anchor.

[acorneau]

Hi folks,

Just read my own post and it sounds like I've moved to OK, but I actually live in Houston. (Just so no one gets confused!)

MyDogScout and SpaceMonkey: thanks for the replies and reasoning for the lack of anchors on Zoo.

The last two times we were there my girlfriend cleaned all the climbs, and I haven't had any problem rigging a solid anchor to belay her up in the past, so it wasn't as apparent to me. However, this past weekend my GF, who is coming off the injured list, just wanted to top rope. This made for a more interesting situation were I would climb, construct an anchor, clean the pro while rappelling, let her top rope, and then hope I didn't need the gear I just left for the anchor for the next climb.

I realize i could climb up again, clean my gear and then hike down, but what a pain in the butt!

As far as the High Anxiety bolts: what I saw was three bolts with hangers (all looking quite solid) but only the left hanger had a lap-link with a single piece of chain link (both looking quite rusty). I did as you suggest, leaving a sling and some biners as a rap station, however I always worry that someone will walk by and snag my gear thinking it was left behind.

I have a pair of 9mm stainless steel Maillon Rapide delta quicklinks (almost exactly like the ones at Zoo) that I would be happy to donate to the cause. I probably won't be back up there until the fall, so if someone wants to take it on just let me know.

Again, thanks for your answers.

[spacemonkey]

your welcome

Well, it may be an inconvienience to you to climb, build your anchor, lower off and then climb again to clean.  Not sure how to help you out on that one.  Its part of the oklahoma climbing experience, and its almost certain that there wont ever be rap stations at the top of every route. You just dont need them. If its a problem for you, you might try different routes until your girlfriend gets all healed up. Remember that this is a National Wildlife Refuge and Not a national park.  Much of it is classified as national wilderness area, and many wilderness areas in the nation have relatively few bolted belays.  It makes a good training ground for wilderness climbing..where you most certainly will have to build your own anchors. Not to mention it ads to the adventure. 

Im familiar with Erock...climbed there for many years.  I know many of the routes have bolted belays right next to perfect cracks.  Its a state park...not a national wildlife refuge. The ethics and climbing opportunities are much different in these two areas. 

Before 1996 there was no regulation on fixed anchors in the wildlife refuge, but after 96 all new bolts and replacements require a fixed anchor permit.

As for the lower mt scott rap anchors..I will check into it.  Its been so long since ive climbed lower mt scott, i cant remember if there was one quick link or two down there originally.  Honestly though..you should not have a problem with anyone taking your anchor if your down there climbing.  Now if you left it unattended and they looked over and no one was down there..then yeah, you might loose it. But as long as your down there, you should be fine.  Ive left my pack...rack..ropes and all that jazz on top..as well as just an anchor numerous times, and never had a problem.  You might get someone ask if they can clip in an rap on your anchor though.

Adding or replacing quick links or chains does require a fixed anchor permit as well.

Well, have fun and be safe climbing in the wichitas. 

[Marion]

A few more comments...

Since fixed anchor management policies went into affect in 1996, all fixed anchors are required to be camoflauged so as to blend in as much as possible with the surrounding rock.  That  means all fixed anchors placed or replaced since that time will have Metolious enviro hangers or a similar natural colored finish matching the granite.  Any non-camoflauged, older styles of fixed anchors on the Refuge are those that were placed prior to 1996.

A few members of the climbing community have made a tremendous effort through the years to replace many of the older, non-camoflauged bolts on the Refuge.  A list of those can be found on the ABC section of the WMCC website.  However, many older style bolts still remain.  One of the most important things local climbers with the necessary equipment and experience can do to ensure the future of climbing at the Refuge is to get involved in the ongoing replacement efforts in order to eliminate any possible visual or aesthetic impacts caused by fixed anchors.

Another significant benefit that has occured as a result of the replacement and upgrade efforts is that a number of redundant and spurious bolts have been removed.  As a result, the total number of fixed anchors on the Refuge has actually increased little, if any, since management efforts began more than decade ago.

Unlike Enchanted Rock where the CTCC, acting on behalf of the State Park, actually places, replaces and maintains fixed anchors, the ABC and USFWS only review and authorize fixed anchor proposals based on natural resource criteria.  The ABC and USFWS do not place or replace fixed anchors.  Individual members of the local climbing community are solely responsible for placing, replacing and maintaining fixed anchors on the Refuge, except for the rare situation where it is determined that a fixed anchor(s) has been placed without the necessary authorization of the Refuge Manager.  In those cases, the ABC, acting at the request and on behalf of the USFWS, will remove the illegal fixed anchor(s).

Unlike a National Park, climbing at the Refuge is a privilege and not a right.  To ensure we continue to have that privilege, one of the single most important things that climbers can do is to continue to take very serious responsiblity with regard to the placement, replacement and matinainencanc of fixed anchors.  That means (1) eliminating any visual or aesthetic impacts that may still exist due to pre-1996 placements, (2) limiting the number of new applications for new routes requiring fixed anchors to only those that provide truly exceptional and valuable new climbing opportunities and (3) serioulsy embracing and supporting more stringent fixed anchor policies for Charons Garden, which is a federally designated wilderness area under the Wilderness Act.

The future of climbing in the Refuge is and will always remain directly related to the willingness of each and every climber who visits the Refuge to go the extra mile in protecting its unique and outstanding natural resources.

[Marion]

As far as the High Anxiety bolts: what I saw was three bolts with hangers (all looking quite solid) but only the left hanger had a lap-link with a single piece of chain link (both looking quite rusty). I did as you suggest, leaving a sling and some biners as a rap station, however I always worry that someone will walk by and snag my gear thinking it was left behind.

I have a pair of 9mm stainless steel Maillon Rapide delta quicklinks (almost exactly like the ones at Zoo) that I would be happy to donate to the cause. I probably won't be back up there until the fall, so if someone wants to take it on just let me know.

The fixed belay/top rope/rappell anchors at the top of High Anxiety should have been replaced a long time ago.  They pre-date the 1996 regulations and are in need of upgrading to eliminate poor aesthetics.  They are in the unusual position of being on top of a cliff that is at the end of a trail immediatelty downhill from one of the scenic pullouts on the Mt. Scott road.  Other Refuge visitors sometimes hike to the site for the incredible view from the top of cliff.  It would be nice for those who do to have little or no awareness of the fixed anchors while they are there.

In my opinion, the existing anchors should be replaced with 2 tan Metolious Rap Anchors, which allow direct threading of ropes and do  not require additional links.  Because of the unique trail side location of the the top of the cliff and the anchors, the fixed gear components of the anchors need to be kept to a minimum.
           

[acorneau]

In my opinion, the existing anchors should be replaced with 2 tan Metolious Rap Anchors, which allow direct threading of ropes and do  not require additional links.  Because of the unique trail side location of the the top of the cliff and the anchors, the fixed gear components of the anchors need to be kept to a minimum.

The colored rap hangers are a good idea. You could also make them less visible by putting them on the front face instead of on top as they are now. There is plenty of room and they would still be perfectly placed for their purpose, however the bolts would need to be set well and/or nice and beefy 1/2 inchers as they would be pulled in-line instead of in shear.